From: "Richard H. McCullough" To: "Godfrey Rust" , "Patrick J. Hayes" Cc: "RDF-Interest" , "Richard S. Latimer" References: <000e01c2a377$e03e9a30$bd7ba8c0@rhm8200> <005401c2a5cd$4f6e42a0$0a14a8c0@godfrey> Subject: Re: space,time in KR: context, initial, final Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 12:04:30 -0800 Organization: retired from Bell Labs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01C2A5C4.744E5960" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C2A5C4.744E5960 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable You make some excellent points. 1. My concept of "person" does not depend on legal status (e.g. age). 2. My concept of "time independent" is related to causality. I view attributes (e.g. sex) as "constant", unless/until changed by some = action (e.g. sex change operation). In other words, there is a "long time interval" where we can view the = attribute as "time independent". I think this is a good way to characterize reality, even though "long time interval" depends on the judgment of the = "observer". In summary: an attribute is a space-time-independent characteristic of an entity an action is a space-time-dependent characteristic of an entity actions change attributes =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Dick McCullough=20 knowledge :=3D man do identify od existent done knowledge haspart proposition list ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Godfrey Rust=20 To: Richard H. McCullough ; Patrick J. Hayes=20 Cc: RDF-Interest ; Richard S. Latimer=20 Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 5:07 AM Subject: Re: space,time in KR: context, initial, final Belated comments. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Richard H. McCullough=20 a. Jane has sex=3Dfemale=20 b. Jane isa person=20 c. John do walk with a limp done=20 d. John do walk to the store done=20 a and b are attribute and relation statements which are independent = of space-time.=20 GR> a is not independent if Jane has a sex change. If your datastore = was for a sex-change clinic it would be the most significant variable. = In some jurisdictions sex changes are not recognized (I understand from = this week's newspapers that in the UK it will be possible in future to = change your birth certificate) so this statement is both space and time = dependent. b is space-time dependent according to your definition of "person". = If it is a legal definition then in many jurisdictions it will be true = only after one of Jane's birthdays, and which one will vary from place = to place. c is an action statement which is independent of space-time.=20 GR> c is not time independent. Presumably Jane wasn't born walking, = so it is not true until at least the time at which she could walk. After = that it depends on whether the limp was genetic or acquired. She will = also only walk with a limp in appropriate environments (eg not under = water or if she is an astronaut). d is an action statement which depends on space-time.=20 GR> ...as are all the rest. In any case they are bounded by Jane's = life: and that may have begun at conception or at birth, or any time = between or even before, according to your religious or philosophical = conjecture, or the requirements of your datastore.=20 Any definition of space-time independence is itself space-time = dependent, and dependent on the view of the domain within which, or the = authority by which, it is expressed. (But then again, that's just my = point of view...:-) I dont disagree with your general approach to contexts, btw Richard: = it is quite similar to the one we use, but beware of making = non-contextual statements about them as they undermine its credibility = and usefulness. Godfrey Rust ................................ Data Definitions 14 Gloucester Road London W5 4JB T 020 8579 8655 M 07979 627714 E godfreyrust@dds.netkonect.co.uk ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C2A5C4.744E5960 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
You make some excellent = points.
 
1. My concept of "person" does not = depend=20 on legal status (e.g. age).
 
2. My concept of "time independent" is = related to=20 causality.
I view attributes = (e.g. sex) as=20 "constant", unless/until changed by some action (e.g. sex change=20 operation).
In other words, there is a = "long time=20 interval" where we can view the attribute as "time = independent".
I think this is a good way to = characterize=20 reality,
even though "long time=20 interval" depends on the judgment of the "observer".
 
In summary:
    an attribute is a=20 space-time-independent characteristic of an entity
    an action is a=20 space-time-dependent characteristic of an entity
    actions change=20 attributes
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Dick McCullough
knowledge :=3D man do = identify=20 od existent done
knowledge haspart proposition=20 list
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Godfrey Rust =
To: Richard H. McCullough ; Patrick J. = Hayes=20
Cc: RDF-Interest ; Richard S. = Latimer=20
Sent: Tuesday, December 17, = 2002 5:07=20 AM
Subject: Re: space,time in KR: = context,=20 initial, final

Belated=20 comments.
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Richard H.=20 McCullough
 
a. Jane has = sex=3Dfemale=20
b. Jane isa person =
c. John do walk=20 with a limp done
d. John do walk=20 to the store done
a and b are attribute and relation = statements=20 which are independent of space-time.
 
GR> a is = not independent=20 if Jane has a sex change. If your datastore was for a sex-change = clinic it=20 would be the most significant variable. In some jurisdictions sex = changes=20 are not recognized (I understand from this week's newspapers that in = the UK=20 it will be possible in future to change your birth certificate) so = this=20 statement is both space and time dependent.
 
b is space-time = dependent=20 according to your definition of "person". If it is a legal = definition then=20 in many jurisdictions it will be true only after one of Jane's = birthdays,=20 and which one will vary from place to place.
 
c is an action statement which is = independent=20 of space-time.
 
GR> c is = not time=20 independent. Presumably Jane wasn't born walking, so it is not true = until at=20 least the time at which she could walk. After that it depends on = whether the=20 limp was genetic or acquired. She will also only walk with a limp in = appropriate environments (eg not under water or if she is an=20 astronaut).
 
d is an action statement which = depends on=20 space-time.
 
GR> ...as are = all the rest. In=20 any case they are bounded by Jane's life: and that may have begun at = conception or at birth, or any time between or even before, = according to=20 your religious or philosophical conjecture, or the requirements of your = datastore.=20
 
Any definition of = space-time=20 independence is itself space-time dependent, and dependent on the = view of=20 the domain within which, or the authority by which, it is=20 expressed.  = (But then=20 again, that's just my point of view...:-)
 
I dont disagree = with your general=20 approach to contexts, btw Richard: it is quite similar to the one we = use,=20 but beware of making non-contextual statements about them as = they=20 undermine its credibility and usefulness.
 
Godfrey=20 Rust
................................
Data Definitions
14=20 Gloucester Road
London W5 4JB
T 020 8579 8655
M 07979 = 627714
E=20 godfreyrust@dds.netkonect= .co.uk
 
 
 
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